Envy Unpacked: A Cross-Disciplinary Look at Benign and Malicious Envy in Psychology and Philosophy

Overview

In this episode of Speaking of Psychology, host Kim Mills chats with psychologist Jens Lange and philosopher Sarah Protassi about envy, its bad reputation, and how it can sometimes be a force for good. The conversation covers definitions, differences from jealousy, and practical ways to channel envy toward personal growth and healthier relationships.

• benign-envy and malicious-envy are discussed as functional patterns of the envy process
• envy often arises from comparisons in domains of high personal relevance
• the guest experts highlight how envy relates to growth mindsets and emulation
• the episode touches on schadenfreude and social dynamics in groups

Overview

The podcast brings two scholars, Jens Lange a psychologist and Sarah Protassi a philosopher, together with host Kim Mills to examine envy from psychological and philosophical angles. The discussion challenges the stereotype that envy is inherently destructive and presents a nuanced view in which envy can motivate self-improvement, social learning, and ethical reflection. The episode also covers how envy operates in close relationships and how modern contexts such as social media influence envy dynamics.

Defining Envy and Distinguishing from Jealousy

The conversation begins with a clear definition of envy as a painful feeling that stems from an unfavorable comparison with another person who is higher in a domain that is personally meaningful. Envy differs from jealousy, which involves fear of losing what one already has. Lange provides concrete examples, such as envying a colleague’s scholarly accomplishments while not envying a non-related talent like acting. Protassi expands the discussion by outlining four types of envy that she categorizes in her work and describing how they can manifest in real life.

The Four Types of Envy and Their Implications

Protassi describes four kinds of emulative envy: (1) emulative envy, a painful but hopeful drive toward self-improvement; (2) inert envy, a self-defeating form where the envier feels blocked and withdraws from relationships; (3) aggressive envy, where the envier attempts to undermine the envied person through mischievous means; and (4) spiteful envy, where the envy is expressed as rumors or social sabotage without improving the envier’s own status. Lange aligns with a social-functional view from psychology, distinguishing benign envy, which can lead to self-improvement, from malicious envy, which can lead to harming others. He cautions that these distinctions are not always clean in the data and stresses the social context surrounding the envied object.

Interdisciplinary Perspectives and Collaboration

The hosts and guests discuss how philosophy and psychology complement each other. Protassi notes that philosophical traditions interrogate whether envy is a virtue or vice, whereas psychology focuses on functional processes in social situations. The collaboration they describe began at a conference that paired philosophers and psychologists to examine hostile emotions, leading to a special issue and a joint approach that blends empirical evidence with normative analysis. The dialogue highlights how a combined lens can illuminate not only what envy is but also how to evaluate its moral dimensions and possibly guide healthier responses.

Envy Toward Close Others and Frenemies

A key portion of the discussion addresses why envy commonly arises in intimate or close relationships such as friendships, siblings, or partners. Protassi explains that similarity in these relationships fosters envy, though love and admiration can still coexist with envy. The guests emphasize the importance of open communication, growth-oriented strategies, and acknowledging that envy is a common human experience rather than a personal failure. They discuss practical implications for couples and families, including how to navigate envy in ways that sustain trust and mutual growth.

Schadenfreude and Social Function

Lange introduces schadenfreude as a social mechanism that can appear in the context of envy, particularly toward dominant individuals who gain influence. He explains that laughing at others’ misfortune can serve to reduce the perceived threat of domineering figures in a group, a functional aspect of social psychology that raises philosophical questions about the morality of schadenfreude and its social consequences.

Envy in the Age of Social Media

The episode addresses how online platforms shape envy through upward social comparisons. The guests note that passive social media use correlates with state envy in many people, especially those with high tendencies toward social comparison. The nuanced view presented here suggests context matters: passive browsing can increase envy, whereas active posting or focused engagement may not, and individual traits modulate these effects.

Practical Advice and Mindset

The speakers offer practical guidance for recognizing envy as a signal rather than a verdict. Protassi emphasizes mindful self-awareness and the growth-minded interpretation of envy as a prompt to learn from others. Lange argues that it is not necessary to suppress envy entirely, as envy has social functions; instead, people can cultivate emulative envy and use it as a tool for personal development, while being mindful of when envy becomes destructive and addressing those patterns openly in relationships.

Conclusion and Resources

The episode closes with reflections on the value of interdisciplinary research for understanding envy and the importance of normalizing conversations about envy within relationships. Listeners are invited to explore the books and articles by Protassi and the research by Lange for deeper insights into the value and management of envy in everyday life.